How to Build a Strong Founder-VC Relationship | Akshay Mehra from Hummingbird Ventures

Akshay: [00:00:00] I've heard the term that some VCs like to work with coachable founders, founders that they can coach and teach. And I just don't adhere to that at all. I've had a lot of calls with founders where for over an hour, we've not even spoken about the business or what, it's more just the demons in their head and being able to manage them.

And the best founders in some ways are the greatest jazz musicians, right? So they know exactly when to play the role, when to step back, uh, when to.

Rahul: Welcome back to Understanding VC. I'm your host Rahul. Understanding VC is a perpetual MBA on a single subject, venture capital. Today I'll be chatting with Akshay Mehra on how VCs and founders can align for a long term successful relationship. Akshay leads investment in both emerging markets and global fintech at Hummingbird Ventures, a global VC fund that focuses on identifying and supporting outlier founders with [00:01:00] unconventional background and high potential, investing from the early stages and providing long term capital through challenging times.

Also, one quick note. Are you looking to refresh your digital presence? Digital Prism, a Singapore based digital transformation expert, sponsoring this episode, has a fantastic offer. First 10 listeners to contact them get 20 free consultation hours. Just mention Rahul Senthil. And also learn more from the link in the show notes.

Now let's talk talkshare.

Hey Akshay, thank you so much for joining me today.

Akshay: thank you, Raul. It's my pleasure to be here.

Rahul: So, I came across this quote from a CEO regarding investors. When investors connect dots they shouldn't, it sends me into damage control mode and disrupts my work. I think what he's trying to say is that it's not always easy to build good relationships with investors. Would you agree

Akshay: I like that we're jumping right into it. I think, I think generally [00:02:00] that's not completely true, right? I just think that the quote probably speaks to the fact that founders know best and investors should more act like guardrails as opposed to kind of have this role in their minds of telling founders what to do, which is, which should never be the case, right?

So I think that's where it's coming from. And my personal belief and Hummingbird's belief, which is, you know, you can even read it on our website is one of the things we say is don't metal and we don't like to metal. Right. And I think what that means is that we believe that investors should stay out of the way as much as possible, allow founders to trust their own instincts in building their company with their unique insights and investors should simply be patient.

and of course, add value, at key areas, right? Whether it's talent, raising capital, Intel based on what they're seeing in the market, because at the end of the day, if you think about my job as an investor versus the founders, the [00:03:00] founders are in the weeds thinking about one specific problem every day and how to solve it, investors are all over the place, taking a more bird's eye view.

Um, I'm trying to understand the landscape from a much more macro level now that can uncover a lot of insights and add specific value to the thesis. A founder has in mind, but that's the investors role. It's not to come in and tell them what to do, how to alter their road map, what features they should build, how they should prioritize their time.

It's more just being patient. Providing insights from a macro level and helping the company raise capital over time. I think those are the main areas that investors add value. So going back to your quote, I don't think it's, you know, that investors and founders can't have a great relationship. I think there's a bit of nuance to it and that it can be a very healthy, symbiotic relationship.

Assuming each person knows their role in the equation.

Rahul: Yeah, why is it important though, uh, to have, good relationships?

Akshay: I [00:04:00] mean, it's, it's, it's like a marriage. If you think about it, I mean, what we do, we get in a pre seed, seed, series A, right? And these companies to achieve their full potential can take 10 to 15 years in many cases. Now that's a long time. And trust me, it's not always up and to the right. There's several ups and downs along the way.

And that requires a lot of emotional alignment, um, more than just this transactional nature. You know, one person giving the other person money and hoping that they get more money back. Uh, it's more about being, that emotional, thinking about that emotional question. It is really critical, I think, over the long run.

Rahul: Yeah, I guess, that misalignment is the reason why it's hard to have a good relationship.

Akshay: There's not complete alignment because the truth is that in most venture firms, there is a duration period to which they have to adhere to, to give capital back to the limited partners. Right. Which is who they borrow or take money from. [00:05:00] And so there are certain cases where investors are pushing for some sort of exit to showcase to their LPs that they can return capital and raise the next fund.

But in general, if you think about the North Star from pre seed, the way I look at things, it's let's make this company succeed and do what it takes. You're right in that the long run. There could be some, incentives that are not aligned, but the best thing founders can do before taking venture money is understanding that the outcome size has to align with what the, what it means to take venture funds.

And I think a lot of people miss that because they want to see the, uh, the press release or whatever, the tweets going live that they raised capital. But at the end of the day. you know, a 50 million outcome or even a 100 million outcome in many cases for venture firms just doesn't move the needle relative to, a fairly decent fund size, right?

So these are things to think about as it relates to alignment and how people should work together.

Rahul: Yeah. Yeah. I know we [00:06:00] are here to talk about founder investor relationship, but this is something that I wanted to ask you. Uh, there's a fun size and strategy, play a role,in aligning interest.

Akshay: Yeah, absolutely. It also is highly dependent on the level of ambition. And that's something I really press on when I speak to founders before we invest in them, which is, it's a very deep question, but it's what do they want from life, right? Like, what do they. Want to achieve over the next 10, 15, 20 years, because if it's not aligned with a really large outcome, a financial outcome to be completely candid, um, in many ways, if their business model, their vision, their thinking, how they want to live their life doesn't align with really.

Just going really big. I don't believe that venture is the best way. I think that if a founder wants to create a passive business that generates a million dollars in income to the shareholders and for themselves, I think that [00:07:00] that can, there are many, many ways to do that. And it's totally fine if you want to do that, right?

Like there's no way that I believe that venture is the only way. I just don't. so I think, I think that that question really unlocks If you can't have alignment, right. And like I said, it's a long journey. We want to work with founders that are really ambitious, but they also are aligned with our level of what, how we define, you know, a significant.

Level of ambition. And yeah, like I said, there's no right or wrong way, but, but asking these questions early is the only way to create that healthy relationship.

Rahul: Yeah. So, If you were to think about the components of sort of a, a successful founder VC relationship, one, we definitely, I mean, already spoke about the alignment of vision and the larger goal of the, the founder. Um, besides that, what are some of the other things? I believe trust, transparency, all those things are important.

Akshay: absolutely. Right. [00:08:00] So I think one of the big things is of course, outside of what we spoke about, which is the level of expectations and how things should go. Is this the basic things, right. Which is. Creating trust and being extremely transparent when things are going well, when things are going badly.

And most importantly, you know, we've seen a lot of backslash in the Indian and Southeast Asian ecosystem recently of this, but corporate governance is critical, right? So that's the way to build trust. You can't just get on a call and say, Hey, we trust each other, right? No, I don't think that's the right way to do it.

It takes time, like any relationship. And, it's driven a lot by just transparency and providing the right amount of information and being. Yeah, really great at the corporate governance piece. I think that sometimes it gets lost, in the mix, but like investors do, I think founders do think long term, but it shouldn't just be about growth at all costs all the time, it should also be, you know, growing for sure, but at the same time doing so in a very sustainable way and making sure that every stakeholder has all the right information throughout the journey.

[00:09:00] Right. Cause that, that really creates a smoother process long term.

Rahul: Yeah. so you already mentioned about how, uh, Hummingbird views this, you know, you guys are very clear on like not to really interfere too much. So what about the sort of, roles and responsibilities for both parties? Understanding, having an understanding of each party's roles and responsibilities.

Akshay: Um, do you mean in the sense, do we explicitly tell founders what they should do and shouldn't do?

Rahul: No, not, not necessarily. Like, what is my role here as an investor and what is sort of, uh, area then? Yeah, I would want to say maybe, yeah.

Akshay: Yeah. I mean, just because I just spoke about it, I think corporate governance is something that every investor tends to push on, which is You know, having all the numbers in place, tracking the right metrics, tracking the basic metrics in many cases from day one, and making sure that's kind of disclosed on a monthly or quarterly [00:10:00] basis, whatever is relevant for the state of the company.that's not to say that it's something we need to ask founders daily or weekly, it's more just, can they hire the right team to even, make sure that, that, that is. communicated effectively to investors, right? Outside of that, like I started the call with, I think, I think the investor's role is, in my view, is to, it just, there are many specific points in the business, uh, Sequoia, in the U.

S. they call This crucible moments, right? For, for companies, which is when either there's something bad that happens, let's say a co founder breakup or the business model isn't working. So they need to pivot and think about ideas and business models to pivot into. These are crucible moments and, investors need to be extremely patient, be extremely aligned as to why they invested and.

Be true to themselves, intellectually honest with themselves to the fact that, you know, at the end of the day, at least [00:11:00] at Hummingbird, we deeply, our thesis is deeply embedded into the founder themselves. And so if there's an issue, if there's a pivot required, we have to support that team. And we've done so in many, many cases.

And personally for me, I've had a portfolio company as well, that has, gone through both a co founder breakup and a pivot. And so these things. Happen and funnily enough, if we look back at our own history, a lot of the successful companies in our portfolio have had severe issues early on. I know that experiences in many cases.

So, I think our role is to just add value, from an emotional level and from a, I'm just being patient and when the things are going badly and when things have been great, that's always amazing. But like I said, it's always important to think about key hires you can bring on board. I spent hours at times just scrolling through LinkedIn and seeing who can be the next best hire for a specific portfolio company.

And we have a talent team that does the same. Umand then also of course, raising capital, right. Which is outside of our own [00:12:00] fund. We, we like to obviously build relationships with other venture firms or growth equity firms and, provide that kind of act as a mediator or a conduit to, to allowing our founders that we support to access those relationships and pools of capital as well.

Thank you.

Rahul: so I've heard this, from a number of founders, where, you know, the investors promised at the beginning, of like providing support, like you said, hiring and, uh, being there at those crucible moments, but then when they don't, That also leads to like a sort of breakdown of relationship.

Right. Then you kind of feel like, okay, you promised me this, that you would support when it matters, but then, and it really mattered. You're not wrong. It's like you, you are not pulling your weight.

Akshay: Yeah. It's like that Charlie Munger quote, right? Incentives drive behavior. I think he said it at least. Umand the incentives are important here, right? So even for founders, when they take venture money, I think for any venture firm, the two constraints are time and money. [00:13:00] And we often think about the money piece with fund size, but we forget about the time piece, right?

And so to your point, Rahul, which is really important one, at least, you know, before I joined Hummingbird, and even now that I've been here for over three years, One of the things I love about how we do things is that we're fairly concentrated in how we do our investments, right? So maybe five to six investments globally every year.

And what that means is. We can't, our incentives are fully aligned with the founders in the sense that even though founders have one shot at one company, we don't have too many shots. And what that means is that we have to be there for the companies. We have to make sure that they succeed and do our very best to make that happen.

Of course, it doesn't happen the majority of the time, given venture is all about the power law, but, We, we try to really mimic that concentration that founders have to face and that's creates even more alignment. There are certainly funds out there that do hundreds of investments here, with a, with a smaller team.

And then issues arise, right? Because you [00:14:00] tend to start cutting your losses and you tend to start, not paying attention to, to, companies when things don't go well. We can't afford that at Hummingbird, but, and many other funds are like us, but. that's, that's something founders need to think about, as opposed to, let's say a brand name, just also going with investors that can give them that time and money, not just the money.

Rahul: Yeah. For founders, it's only it is, is your only bet. And for investor it's like one of their many bets.

Akshay: Yeah. And so I guess it's about aligning yourself with a, with a partner who is really not going to be a co founder, but from their perspective really needs you to win,

Rahul: Yeah. Yeah. Can we also talk about the power dynamics? So again, I saw something on Twitter Somebody mentioned that you know, the problem casting investors as like a father or mother figure is not really a good idea Because then

Akshay: Yeah. I don't know who, who does that, but

Rahul: Yeah, [00:15:00] then you're expecting them to always behave with good intentions to a founder, which is not always the case.

Akshay: I keep thinking about our website and how we, we say the opposite, which is. Most of the founders don't listen to us. Like we literally say that founders filter 95 percent of the advice we give them, which is a type of founder. We like, people that are a bit unreasonable, a bit brash and a bit high conviction, maybe too much high conviction in their ideas and how they want to do things.

And we're just along for the ride. We're just patient along for the ride and let these founders trust their instincts. I've heard the term that some VCs like to work with coachable founders, Founders that they can coach and teach. And I just don't adhere to that at all. The best founders in the world, you can name them.

I mean, the platforms we use daily, whether it's Twitter, whether it's Facebook, et cetera, these founders have trusted their instinct. They have a high sense of urgency and they've built their businesses, on the back of their own instincts. I don't think their VCs on their board are telling them what to do and how to do [00:16:00] things.

And so we like to partner with those founders. Again, every fund is different, right, Rahul? And there's no right way of doing this job, which is what makes it exciting. But, this whole father, or mother figure, in the power dynamic, doesn't really align with how I do it or how Armin Bird does it. And many other firms do it.

So it's more of a peer relationship. And like I said, it's, everybody has their strengths and weaknesses. But if I had to break it down into like an equation and weight it, the founder is really what drives the outcome,

Rahul: Yeah.

Akshay: is what definitely drives the outcome. And so that's how it should be.

Rahul: So then, uh, can investors and founders be then be good friends or should they even be good friends or it should be slightly professional? Yeah.

Akshay: it's, it's, it's, it's like you wouldn't have in any company, right? Like I think coworkers generally, of course, it should end up, you know, you should feel like [00:17:00] friends and maybe in some cases, family eventually when there's a nice, you know, exit that happens and everybody's happy. But I think generally.

Of course, investors and founders should be friends. And I think friendship is a function of going through life experiences together and, uh, building a bond. And honestly, I mean, investing in a startup that is simply an embryonic idea and trying to make it grow into something really meaningful and that can change the world.

It's a, it's a really convoluted journey, right? And it's complex. And because that bond can then be quite strong at the end of the journey. I'm sure that friendship is the outcome at the minimum. So I totally, totally think it's possible and how it should be. At least that's the way I approach it. Again, it's, it's, it is to your point.

There are many dynamics that are seen in the ecosystem, whether it's working with the coachable founder or whether it's working with the peer, et cetera. But the way I like to personally approach things is [00:18:00] to deeply respect the person on the other side of the table. Allow them to trust their instincts, be patient with them.

and yeah, treat them like a peer and learn from them consistently. And I can, hopefully provide my views and they can learn from that in certain cases. So it just depends how you approach any relationship. Right. But yeah, I think you can be friends for sure.

Rahul: Yeah. I think if you have a close of bond with the person, then you know where the other person is coming from. So the communication and understanding is so much better. I see.

Akshay: Yeah. And, it's on both parties to kind of be transparent and open. I think one of the things that we frequently hear from the founders we work with at least is that somehow we're, seen as the investor on the board or on the cap table that they can just call on anytime. And that's really, for me, that founder NPS, you know, going up because of that is, is really meaningful.

Rahul: Yeah. Yeah. So another thing that I [00:19:00] think you've mentioned before to me is the company building is like, it's like jazz orchestra in comparison to classical music orchestra or something.

Akshay: yeah. I remember writing this to an email, something I think about a lot. look, jazz and classical music, those are the two kinds of extremes, to think about it from like a structural perspective of how music is created. And jazz, to many people's surprise, of course, it sounds in some cases, there's a lot of improvisation, things are random, there's a lot of instruments.

But there is a lot of structure as well. there's, you know, a verse, there's a chorus, there's a bridge, as you would in any pop song. It's just that in between that, there's a lot of communication, adaptation, pivots, if you want to use the word, and unpredictability and uncertainty. Classical music is You have a sheet in front of you and someone's telling you what to do and you do exactly that and it sounds amazing and, but, but that's not how startups are, right?

So [00:20:00] I would kind of, maybe, maybe the, the parallel is classical music is being a product manager or who works in a really big tech company that's made it, that is in the trillion dollar market cap. and kind of know exactly what they need to do day to day and have a job and they have a to do list and kind of like a checklist, whereas with jazz and it's like building a startup, right?

Which is yes, there is structure. We need to build a product that people want. We need to get customers to pay for this product. We need to ensure that we hire the best people. So there are certain things you can kind of have as a checklist, but everything within that is unpredictable. And the best founders in some ways are the greatest jazz musicians, right?

So they know exactly when to play the role, when to step back, when to, really lean in and play a certain kind of, uh, or take the lead and when they need to kind of step out. Right. So a lot of unpredictability, many different roles, many things can change. But there is some sense and some semblance to structure around it as well.[00:21:00]

So that's the way I like to think about it.

Rahul: So what are some of the scenarios, which have high potential for a breakdown relationship?I mean, a lot of investors claim to be founders first, but when, when, when it comes to like certain really tough scenarios, uh , they are short of their promise. So what are some of? those scenarios.

Akshay: It comes back to the intent behind partnering with a specific founder, at least somewhere I can speak from an investor's perspective. And then I'll try to share what I can from a founder's perspective. But from an investor's perspective, if you have invested in a company based on, let's say, hypothetically, a certain Construct of the world or a vision or a product that you want to see come to life. But the team to you is not something you're as excited about, but you really like what they're doing. And then six months in 12 months and you put in, you know, one to 5 million and then the founders get on a call and say, Hey, like we want to pivot. We don't believe in this idea [00:22:00] that could cause a lot of friction, right?

Because the investors intent behind. You know, providing capital to these founders is not really the team itself, but it's, it's also just the business model, right? And the product they wanted to see. So that could cause friction. So, That's one way that there's a hundred, the list of hundred, you know, I can share, but maybe we don't have time for that today, but that's one way, which is the intent behind why you've actually invested, why you made the decision. And from the founder's perspective, it could just be overbearing investors, which are, you know, they want to see progress. They want to feel that they're, they also, you know, we're all humans here. And so we want to feel like we're adding value. Sometimes we come in the way, and so that could be, um, that could be a reason.

It could also be a reason to say, shifting priorities of the business. So the founder wants to focus on X, but the investor at the board meeting says you should do Y. I think those are other reasons. And it goes back to the quote [00:23:00] we started with actually, which is, you know, that could, if investors come in the way of the founder painting their, their, their On their canvas.

perhaps that could be another reason. It's a, it's a problem.

Rahul: Yeah. Have you dealt with founders who do not want to have a relationship with you?

Akshay: Yes. I wouldn't say the word is, it's not as, strong as we, they don't want to have a relationship, but they explicitly tell me, Hey man, we're a pre-seed company. We're a seed company. We are talking to customers. We know how to build this product. There's not gonna be progress for the next month. Let's put 30 minutes on the calendar.

on a rolling basis. And honestly, I'm, I've done that, you know, for two of the portfolio companies I work with. And it's totally fine because these things do take time. Of course, there is in my mind, let's say after a year or so, you need to kind of increase the cadence and make sure that there's actually some accountability, but, but sure.

you know, giving founders that time is [00:24:00] completely reasonable.

Rahul: From a founder perspective, do you think that's a good idea? not to sort of, build relationship, a strong relationship with, investors?

Akshay: I don't think building relationships with, Your investor is the most important thing. I think the most important thing, and again, it depends on the stage you're at, but almost always is focusing on the business and focusing on building something that people will want to purchase, whether it's a consumer or a business. Building a really rockstar team. Because at the end of the day, if you think about it, like I said, the North star is having a great outcome. And if there's going to be a great outcome, presumably the duration will be longer and the founder investor relationship will be okay, will be great. Actually. So I think.

I think the founder investor relationship is not the priority for a founder in the sense that they don't have to, you know, [00:25:00] actively, you know, have 30 minute calls every week with investors just to make sure they're happy. Investors are happy if things are going well. I mean, that's pretty much true 100 percent of the cases, right? And for investors, I think founder NPS is the most important thing, at least as it relates to a specific portfolio company. And so in that case, in some ways, it means giving the founders space and time it's counterintuitive, but I think it's true,

Rahul: Yeah. But founders, uh, don't you think like, uh, keeping investors informed? Both good and bad is important, right? If you wait until the last moment and then you seek for help when there is not enough time in terms of maybe a bridge round or something like that, then it's too late.

Akshay: trust me that that never happens, if there's ever a need for, you know, I guess there has to be real expectation alignment around what it means to maintain a great founder investor relationship. And. [00:26:00] One thing for sure is just reporting the basics, right? And how things are going.

If there's a need for capital, that doesn't need for help with hiring. That's, that's typically very basic stuff that every founder does, right? And these are all the great founders we've worked with. They, they would at least tell us on a monthly basis, how things are going, uh, key areas that are keeping them up at night, key things that are keeping them excited.

And that's good enough, right? For, for investors to form a view as to does this company need capital? Does this company need help on hiring, et cetera. That's typically just all right, to make things work.

Rahul: Yeah. Okay. Maybe one more thing. Let's say we can take an example of a difficult scenario. Like pivoting, maybe, or a co founder breakup. So, how can, the founders and investors deal with, let's say, a co founder break up and not have a breakdown in relationship?

Akshay: Yeah, look, I think the rationale behind the co founder breakup has to be [00:27:00] taken into account. If it's just that the corporate governance is not in place and one founder is lying about the numbers and the other founder has been agreeing with it for a year, I think that's a big no no and I think sometimes just giving back capital and closing the business is just fine. Uh, personally, I haven't gone through that, but in certain cases, if there are founders from different parts of the world that want to focus on building for two different markets after three or four months working together. That's a good enough reason to say, okay, that makes sense. If one founder wants to spend the next 10, 15 years, their lives focusing on one thing and the other doesn't, let's have a rational conversation and find ways to, to essentially move forward.

Right. So I won't go into too many details about what I've personally been through with the portfolio company, but, Essentially it was a similar case of regional differences. And then we parted ways with one of the founders, um, with, that in mind, which is, you know, uh, the relationship between the co founders interestingly was still good.

It wasn't, it was a little sour, but it was good. And so it wasn't a very ugly [00:28:00] case of, you know, any lawsuits or anything crazy like that. So, but it is really believing in the, in, in the founder that you want to back eventually and supporting them and say, okay, fine. Do you know what. We invested in both of you, but I still have conviction in one of you, to make this happen.

And, uh, yeah, just, you know, like I said, going back to, to playing jazz, these things somehow, are unpredictable and uncertain, but you kind of have to go back to the North star of why you made that decision to invest, right?

Rahul: how does, your relationship with founders, sort of evolve over time, like the minute you make investments, to, you mentioned earlier that, uh, when, when it's built? Yeah. In the first year, it's like maybe a monthly update and then the cadence increases or things like that.

Akshay: Yeah. Not necessarily increases it. If it's an expectation that hummingbird or me as an investor should, for example, Take a backseat for the first six months or so, just as they figure things [00:29:00] out. that's okay. But eventually, yes, we want to see more,you know, sense of urgency around building the business, the talent, et cetera.

And that could even be an email that could be sent on a bi weekly basis. For example, the relationship evolves like any relationship evolves, right? You suddenly have more context, whether it's someone you're dating or someone you're getting to know and or. In your college or, uh, it's the same thing, right?

A relationship grows stronger, hopefully, as more context builds. And the best way for a founder and investor relationship to be, to build in the right direction is just, it's like A B testing, right? You're kind of saying something and you're doing it. And you're saying something, you're doing it from both parties, whether it's founder or investor.

And then that compounds into a really fruitful relationship long term. So, yeah, you just come back with more context. you will learn more about the business as an investor. You learn more about the market as an investor, and that makes you sharper. And that allows you to. Think about ideas that you could probably share with founders with the strong asterisks there.

That [00:30:00] means you don't have to expect the founder to actually listen to you, but at the same time, you know, you can share your thoughts. So I think with the relationship for grows over time with which create a context and, and, and that's how I would kind of think about it.

Rahul: I guess with more context, both parties also open up more, um, and, be more, more open and vulnerable, I guess, as time goes.

Akshay: I think so. I think, I think I definitely think that like any relationship as it gets stronger, your willingness to open up and be vulnerable then. Be honest and just share your insecurities in many ways, right? I mean, I've had a lot of calls with founders where for over an hour, we've not even spoken about the business or work.

It's more just the demons in their head. And being able to manage them. And by the way, that's, that's also a role of an investor. Nobody speaks about is like, almost it's like pseudo therapist, untrained therapist of just being good listener. and [00:31:00] just being there for, for founders. Right. And, because trust me, I mean, I've only been on the operating side as a startup employee, like an early stage startup employee, but I, I would imagine basis what I've experienced and what I see as an investor, then the job of a founder is much more difficult and much more volatile.

and much more uncertain. And so great investors in some ways, I guess, would, would have the role of a pseudo therapist and being able to listen quite well.

Rahul: I saw one of your blog articles about catastrophizing things. That usually happens, and it really affects the mental health, of a founder. You end up, imagining the worst. on a daily basis.

Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. and the most ambitious founders have a really strong chip on their shoulder. And with that chip on their shoulder is insecurity. With insecurity is this. to catastrophize quite a bit. [00:32:00] And so if you think about it, like even, even like Elon Musk, for example, read his biography, a lot of his drive has come from his childhood experiences, whether it's his relationship with his parents, his dad in this case, or how he was bullied in school, and I don't think he'll ever be satisfied.

He can work on Twitter. He can work on, Tesla, Neuralink, et cetera, SpaceX. I just think it's all about trying to fill that hole. Uh, that was kind of, you know, impacted really when he was younger. And so we, we also see this trend across, different founders we work with, which is it's the chip on the shoulder that drives outcomes. It's not, you know, how good they were in school or their grades at Stanford or something. It's really more than that.

Rahul: You mentioned dating, marriage. Uh, so that's another thing, right? It's very important for founders to do due diligence before you, start working with an investor. Like you said, it's like a marriage. It's going to last for a long time, longer [00:33:00] than most marriages, apparently average marriage in

Akshay: Yeah, I read that. I read that. I guess it's more of a global, global benchmark.

Rahul: So, do you think a lot of founders actually do due diligence? Enough?

Akshay: I don't think they do enough to be honest. Like there are, there are, I mean, there are certain accelerator programs where there's, you know, demo days. I mean, this happens in many accelerator programs and then you're kind of like, Asked to pick an investor that you're going to have for the rest of the next 10, 15 years, hopefully on your cap table in the span of a week or even less.

And those to me make less sense to be completely honest. it's like, yeah, it's an arranged marriage without really thinking about the, the fundamentals of the relationship. So just like, it just feels a bit complex in many ways to me personally and founders. You know, I think they have to come to the realization that there's a lot of [00:34:00] power on a great platform for sure, because that comes with brand and that brand attracts talent and comes to the platform, perhaps it has 60 people or 80 people, a hundred people that can support your business from many different perspectives, but what it really comes down to, I believe is the chemistry you have with one specific partner that you're going to be working with, because again, going back to what I'm saying, the journey has a lot of ups and downs.

Context compounds, and you have to just believe that that one person is, uh, is the right person for you and your and the way you operate and the way you think about the work, right? So I do think that's really important. It's quite overlooked because it takes a lot of work to get there. not a lot of time, just a lot of work.

But in the in the craze of fundraising, it's often not.

Marker

Rahul: Yeah. How do you measure, your relationship with the founder?

Akshay: I Asked them, on an annual basis. maybe I should do it more often, but I, I mean, I obviously speak with, I work with five companies [00:35:00] and, I speak with them very often in general, whether it's a WhatsApp or a call at least once every. But I asked them every year on really, really clear feedback as to what I did well.

But more importantly, what I didn't do well and what I can do to improve. And, I've gotten a lot of punches thrown at me from the founders, but I honestly, it's always at the back of my mind, on almost a daily basis. So it really pushes me to be better.

Rahul: I think, uh, if both parties can move the needle by working together. For the company, which is, you know, in the interest of both parties. That would be a good outcome.

Akshay: Yeah, absolutely. Everybody has to work in lockstep and put one foot ahead of the other and do so in a way that it's completely aligned.

Rahul: Yeah, uh, This has been great. [00:36:00] Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

Akshay: Yeah. No, it's, it's a pleasure. And, It's, it's amazing that you do this. I think it's really important to, to go deep into the whole world of venture. And I think it's fairly opaque and I think that a lot of the stuff out there, the content out there is quite high level and really respect you for taking one topic and going so deep, it's not the easiest conversation to speak about, right?

But, I think it's, I think it's, it's, it'll be really helpful, I think, for Maybe investors, some founders, and also people that want to get into a venture and see it from like an outsider's perspective,

Rahul: Thank you.